November 6, 2006
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House keeping
A new prayer letter is up. If you’re new to my site and you’re wondering what this is about or why you can’t see it, you can read this explanation.
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I have discovered that when I update regularly, and have lots of pictures of Chris Russo, my traffic increases significantly. Just another piece of evidence showing that sex sells. This means my traffic will probably drop this week, because I’m taking a Russo break. I am Chris-hausted. I see the guy enough during the week. Now I have to see his face everytime I come to my xanga site? No way. I’m reclaiming my space. Of course, I’ll reconvene the Chris-bonanza next week with pictures (and stories) from our trip to the corn maze, and pictures of him dressed up in costume. But right now, I need to take a hiatus from Mr. Pantene Pro-V.
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I’ve tried to initiate discussions in the past on my xanga site regarding some topics I was thinking of. Sometimes they worked, but usually not so well. I’m thinking about giving it another shot.
I overheard a conversation recently regarding sex education. One person said that she wanted to teach her kids about sex because she didn’t trust the school to do a good job of it. She also stated that she would want to teach them young because if she didn’t, her kids would learn from other kids, since they’re getting familiar with sex these days at a really young age. However, she said that she wouldn’t get into too much detail. She stated that she wouldn’t teach her kid how to use a condom, etc. because it would be condoning pre-marital sex. A second person agreed with her up to this point, but disagreed about not showing the kid how to use a condom. He felt that teaching his kid how to use a condom was not condoning pre-marital sex at all. He quoted Matthew 10:16, and said that he would only be making his aware of what is going on.
Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
So, the discussion topic is this:
Would you trust the school to teach your kids sex education? Are schools responsible for teaching proper sex education? Would you teach your kids yourself? If so, at what age would you do it? How much would you teach? Would you teach only abstinence or would you teach them forms of birth control? Is teaching a kid how to use a condom condoning pre-marital sex? What about other forms of birth control? How do you interpret Mattew 10:16 and does it have any significance to the topic at hand? Is it wrongly taken out of context?
Let’s hear some opinions… and discuss amongst yourselves.
Go!!
Comments (32)
um…i wonder if your reader’s have ever thought about these questions before. but it’s a good thing to think about…i would trust the school to teach them, and yes, i think they are responsible and i think the parents should also teach them…
I don’t particularly trust the school system to do such things. I think the condom-teaching depends on what age the kid is and how much I trust them. But there is a bit of implicit license in teaching a kid to use a condom, I think.
Besides, if they don’t listen to you when you tell them not to have sex before marriage, why would they listen to you when you tell them to use a condom?
(“Sex sells.” *cackle*)
I don’t trust schools to do anything, practically. In my experience, sex education at school consists of, “Having babies is BAD” and lots of giggling.
If you want your kid to have a particular set of values, you have to at least tell them about them, so early with frequent reinforcement is a good idea. But, I would not teach my kid how to use a condom because that just tells them I don’t trust them to listen to me.
I would like to teach my own kids that. Don’t really trust the schools to do that, and the values they bring across. As for the specifics like when and what to teach, I have not thought about it. (Parenting is so not in my league right now
)
When I was a student, there wasn’t an official sex education class in Singapore (they have it now though). However I did take up Biology for my “O” Levels (think that’s the equivalent of the second year of high school for you guys), and we had to study the human reproductive system. Our teacher was a pretty, single lady in her 30s who blushed her way through the topic, never articulating certain key words (translate that as being in a shy, conservative Asian society). The guys in my class had a fine time teasing her, trying to get her to say certain key words. That was really fun.
As for that example you shared and the verse you shared, if that man is teaching his son that pre-marital sex is wrong, then it follows that there should not be a need to learn how to use a condom (until he gets married, that is). Also, if he is citing that verse, then he is just focusing on the “be wise as serpents” part, neglecting the “be innocent as doves” part. I should think the latter should apply more if he is against pre-marital sex.
When I was in 5th grade, our school decided to teach sex ed. My friend convinced me that we needed to persudade our parents to write a letter to the school exempting us from having to go to the classes, for the sole reason that while all the other kids were in the class, we could go to the library and play games on the computer. So I convinced my mom, and consequently have never sat through a sex ed course until my biology course in college. Looking back on it now, I’m glad I didn’t go to that class in 5th grade. From what I heard from my friends who did go, it consisted of a lot of giggling and them getting pads and deoderant.
Although that class was probably pretty ineffective at accomplishing its intended goal, I think the whole idea of it is wrong to begin with. Schools are there to educate us intellectually, teach things like history, literature, math, and the sciences. When the schools start crossing over into teaching about life – marriage and sex and the like – this becomes a problem from both perspectives. Not only is a dispassionate teacher trying to explain something like sex to a room full of young, immature kids probably not the best way to go about it, but when you take something like this that SHOULD be taught by the family away from the family, you’re only weakening it. It just becomes one more responsibility that parents place on the schools to do instead of the parents doing themselves. The whole “let the schools raise my kids” mentality. If you’re a caring parent, this is something you need to teach yourself. As jalixx3 said, if you want to teach your kids to think or believe a certain way, you have to tell them. And if you’re at least a decent parent, then your kids will place greater value on what you teach them than they do on what other people teach them.
Another reason it’s a better idea for parents to teach about sex is because each child is different. Children will be ready to learn about sex at different ages because of different maturities. Also, since personalities are different, the approaches that you take to talk to your child about sex will be different. This is such a dangerous and delicate topic, it should be treated with care.
As for when to talk with your child about sex, I certainly have no idea. As someone pointed out, it’s possible to never have to educate your child about sex, the world around them will do it eventually. My parents never sat down and talked with me about sex (that I can recall anyway). I just picked things up from the world around me. However, they must’ve taught me something, because whatever I learned about sex from whatever the source, I always knew that sex outside of marriage was not right.
And that should be the main goal of sex ed anyway: not to teach your kids about sex, but to teach them what to think about sex. It’s probably not even necessary to ever sit down with your kids and explain the ABCs of sex, unless they point-blank ask you, because sex is such an allurement to us that we’re going to think about it enough and figure it out anyway. What’s more important is to teach your kids how they need to view sex, so that they’ll be prepared to deal with it when the world throws it at them every day.
Good posts. I agree with the idea that sex, as a reproductive … system? should be taught in a science/biology class. I also agree that sex, as a personal choice, and attitudes towards sex should be taught by the family. When the discussion crosses over into morals and ethics, the family should have the first and most important say in it. The school can provide backup information, but it shouldn’t be the frontline of education regarding mores.
Of course, schools eventually do start talking about morals, whether it’s business ethics, or ethics in engineering, or ethics as a healthcare provider… and these are good things to have classes and discussions on, I think. But certainly, the student should have their own ideas about morals by this point.
Regarding teaching about condom usage, I agree that teaching someone how to use a condom can be interpreted as permission to go and have sex. But I think if that teaching is combined with the assertion that premarital sex is wrong and that it shouldn’t be done, then that moral teaching should override any implicit license that may be interpreted.
I find it very interesting how different people have entirely different thought processes. Here’s some insight into mine. I believe that people who have heard a good story that has somehow touched them or taught them something, will go on and tell that story to someone else. If the story has some value to the hearer, it will get passed on. Likewise, if someone is taught something of value, it will get passed on as well. Therefore, when I think about teaching my (future) children, or just teaching people in general, I don’t think that I’m just teaching one person, but rather, I am potentially teaching every person they will ever come across as well. So when I think about teaching my kid sex education, I think I have the oppportunity to vicariously teach other children of their own age as well. Although I am not naive enough to believe that all children will learn to abstain from premarital sex through my children, I am naive enough to believe that other children may learn that premarital sex has consequences. At the very least, they can learn that unprotected sex has consequences and that they should use a condom. I don’t think this is entirely wishful thinking, because when I was in middle school, I was able to convince my friend, who was solidly intent on having sex, to wear a condom. And since he didn’t know how to use one, I was able to teach him how to do it. I realise that the world this generation lives in is vastly different than the one I grew up in – at the time, safe sex was still a relatively new idea. Perhaps I won’t have to teach my kids (and other kids) that unprotected sex is a really bad idea. But if there’s even one kid who is really intent on having sex and hasn’t learned how to use a condom, then maybe it might have been worth it in the end.
I like these comments
I think families that are blessed with parents that have Godly values will be able to seek God’s wisdom & timing to talk to their kids about sex. But there are many families with parents that are clueless or have weird values, and don’t go to church. I think these kids need what the school can offer.
I like these comments
I think families that are blessed with parents that have Godly values will be able to seek God’s wisdom & timing to talk to their kids about sex. But there are many families with parents that are clueless or have weird values, and don’t go to church. I think these kids need what the school can offer. Peer groups are also a main source of wisdom for many children, so I agree teaching good values is important ‘cuz it’ll be passed on.
I think that if my parents showed me how to use a condom, it would have seriously damaged me. No lie. I’ll be honest with you, I have a good idea of the basics, but i happily remain nieve on the subject. I say this because I like my innosence and I’m happy to stay that way for as long as possible. Why don’t we start teaching our kids the value of innosence instead of always assuming that each child will ruin it so quickly? (I know that in our current society, it’s highly more likely and that if anyone is going to teach my kids about sex, I’d prefer to be the sourse so that the world has less of a perversion factor on my children. but all the same, once you know something, you can’t unknow it.) And none of this is to say that I think sex detracts from one’s innosence, but I think an early introduction most certianly does.
There are things still to this day that I often opt out of knowing (perverted sorts of things.) I just don’t need to know them and I really don’t want those thoughts bouncing around my head.
^I think your innocence of this subject is more of a blessing than you realise. Most people are unable to control their environments, let alone the environments of their children. The fact that you have gone this long without overhearing or being told these things seems to me like a statistical anomaly. It just doesn’t make sense. It is as if God himself preserved your innocence. And that’s great. I think that’s absolutely incredible. I can’t think of any other explanation for your innocence except for Godly intervention. Either that, or you just don’t have any friends. jk =P
I agree with you that the world would be a better place if we all didn’t know these things. Honestly, I don’t know how to balance my desire for my (future) children to be innocent with my desire for my (future) children to learn truth and good moral values. If I could keep them innocent until the day they marry, I would gladly choose that route. But given the degradation of society, short of moving to Oklahoma, I don’t know if I can avoid the tainting of their innocence.
^^That’s an interesting story, Bokgwai. When I was in middle school, someone found a used condom on the playground one day. I didn’t know what a condom was, but apparently my classmates did because they got all excited about it. When I asked one of my classmates what a condom was, he just looked at me with a look that said “I can’t believe you don’t know what a condom is.” And no one ever did tell me until much later. It just goes to show you the different experiences kids will have. But it also goes to show you that kids WILL learn about this stuff at a young age, so as a parent you need to make sure your voice and values are getting heard.
alright, betsyordie, let’s hear it for innocence! I think that is one of the often overlooked aspects of this whole problem. People don’t place value on innocence anymore; or at least, they place more value on the satisfaction they think they’re going to get from gaining more knowledge about the subject of sex. It’s just like in the garden of Eden. Adam and Eve had valuable innocence, but they were so eager to gain the knowledge that they thought was going to give them this vast pleasure and satisfaction. The serpent told them “your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God.” (that’s a pretty great payoff). but what happened? “their eyes were opened, and they knew that they were naked.” (that’s a pretty disappointing payoff). It’s the same now. Everytime we trade our innocence away, we realize that the knowledge we get in return doesn’t begin to compare to what we had before. I always look back sadly everytime more of my innocence crumbles away. But the really sad thing is I don’t think people realize the value of their innocence, even after it’s gone. So althought they get more jaded and disillusioned the more they learn about sex, they continue to get pulled along by the deceptive desire to keep indulging in it, thinking that the more they know, the more pleasure they will get. But the only “pleasure” they get is like a holograph: it has form, but no substance, and so they are never satisfied. And it just turns into a self-destructing cycle. Actually, this could be applied to a lot of things, but I think sex is one of the most addictive.
I agree with bestyordie and KalynALaMode; innocence is important. And yet hard to maintain. If I as a child would have watched network TV and movies like the ones that regularly air these days… (Or had read my current school’s newspaper or had listened to the conversations in my office…) I think that when you are giving sex education to your child, it is more important to impart an attitude than a set of instructions. The only drawback I can see to this approach is that your kid runs the risk of not getting or being the brunt of a joke. Since pre-adolescents seem to spend 95% of their waking lives making up dirty jokes, though, the risk is probably not much higher.
Having had a night to sleep on this, I am now wondering about this concept of innocence. Is innocence defined by how much we don’t know? If this is true, how do we reconcile being “wise as serpents and innocent as doves?” How can Jesus ask us to know nothing evil, but still be wise?
Contrary to the notion of innocence presented in this discussion so far, I think innocence here refers to refraining from sin. I think this verse is talking about being aware of the sin that goes on in the world, but yet staying innocent of it by not following the world and engaging in its sinful activities. If this is true, then this supports the argument that people ought to know about sex education to be aware of what the world does. But it does not give them license to follow the ways of the world.
Agreed. That’s a good definition of innocence in that verse. However, I believe the innocence that has been discussed so far refers to innocence regarding unnecessary knowledge – perverted sorts of things, as betsyordie said – i.e. dirty jokes and the like. Our desire to remain innocent of these things is based on where the Bible says “it is what goes into a man’s heart and comes out of his mouth that makes him unclean” and again “therefore brothers, whatever is pure, whatever is noble, whatever is admirable….dwell on such things.”
^Right, it’s hard to maintain a pure mind with those bad little nuggets of information running around inside of us. Kalyn, I think you stated in your previous comment what I was thinking very gracefully, thanks! The thing is, I had rock awesome parents (still have.) The regulated what I watched, for instance, and in the evenings we would watch things together (like Newton’s Apple!!) There is no way in Hades I would allow my kids to watch most of the stuff on tv these days, I don’t care how much their friends make fun of them for not doing so. Of course, at this point, we may not have a tv as a radio would perform just fine for all of our weather and news update needs. *sigh*
Bokgwai, you present a good point about innocence being not always what you don’t know but abstaining from sin. Jesus internalized sin, saying that sin isn’t just what you do outwardly, but you comment adultry just looking at a woman lustfully and that you murder in your heart just by hating a person. As I grow older, I am learning what I need to filter through, and until our children reach the age where they can do that for themselves, we must act as that filter. Sure, they’re going to learn things outside of our protection (we all did) but we can give them the tools, values, and strength of character to help them do and think what it right, which is probably the most useful and effective thing we could possibly do for them in terms of their innocence and knowledge about the world around us, especially in the context of sex.
i think public schools are responsible for teaching sex education, just looking at it from a “separation of church and state” viewpoint. They are mandated to teach health classes, and the demographics of our society (sadly) dictate this to be a pressing health issue in the high school population. However, abstinence should be a part of that teaching, as it is *really* the only fool proof method to steer clear of pregnancy and stds. Would i trust it to be the only way my child hears about it? No. But I do feel strongly about not letting sex or sex-ed become something that is sooooo taboo in the Christian home. There’s nothing wrong with sex…in it’s proper context. Christians sometimes can make it seem like it is the ultimate condemn-you-to-hell atrocity, when actually it’s one of the greatest gifts from God. I agree with the person who commented that although her parents never sat and had that face-to-face sex discussion and they learned the basics from the world, the values her parents instilled in her was enough to convict her as to what was not proper for an unmarried Christian.
I also think it might be easier for me to talk about sex, birth control, stds, pregnancy and all of that rather freely and openly, since it’s my profession. The mechanics of it doesn’t make me blush or giggle or whatever (although if i hear the slightest dirty joke my face turn into a tomato…ha!), and i really don’t think i’d have any problem talking to my kids about it. While obviously abstinence is the way we’re pushing…my daughters are still going to get their periods, they’re still going to need to go to the gynecologist, they still have to worry about self breast exams, fibroids, cysts, etc.. My sons are going to have to also understand the funny goings-on in their bodies as they hit puberty, regardless of them being sexual active or not (i hope my husband handles this area, i’m only an expert on the girl end of the reproductive spectrum….plus, it would probably be extremely awkward). Maybe i’m liberal with it all, but i think it’s healthy to have that atmosphere where kids and teenagers feel like they can ask questions or talk about things. I don’t think that’s giving them the idea that sex is okay. Because sex is really only one part of a big big topic that addresses health, puberty, etc.. Age is a key factor, though. One of my biggest nightmares is having a little kid that screams out words like “penis” in the grocery store and thinks it’s the greatest thing ever
When i have kids and sort this all out, i’ll let you know what happens
I learned from the TV. I think I’ll implement that into my kids sex education. Look how well I turned out!
And on a serious note, I have absolutely no idea how I will tell my kids.
The sex sells comments are disturbing…j/k, hilarious, both of you.
ryc: didn’t you read the article? They’re not saying Merry Christmas again this year because they feel on principle that it’s unnecessary to exclude all traces of religion from the holiday. They’re doing it because they don’t want to be boycotted again. If they were, in fact, bravely going against social trend as you suggest, I would agree that demands some respect. But it looks like they’re only catering to whatever will keep people happy and shopping at their stores. that’s why they changed to happy holidays in the first place, because people didn’t like the religious implications and they complained. So walmart switched. Now christians don’t like the non-religious implications and they complained, so walmart switched back. You know what they say, when you try to please everybody, you’ll end up pleasing nobody.
ryoc: Let the Zelda wars begin. If you think you’re the all-time zelda fan, you’ve got another thing coming, buddy.
All I can really comment on is what I experienced. Mom and Dad told me the basics on the facts of life…adolescence, and what sex was, when I was approaching that age…Frankly the vast majority of it scared the crap out of me, and I never felt comfortable talking about any of it. And I knew from my parents, having read the Bible and other Christian books that sex was for marriage only and that abstinence was vastly important. I knew about birth control in a vague sense, I think…then came grade 9 sex ed. My teacher admitted once that her personal preference for us was abstinence but she taught us about birth control…the whole first class, even through the anatomy and physiology, I felt as though it was wrong to even talk about this stuff in a class. My parents showed me otherwise- God made our bodies this way, so it’s important to learn how they work, and I don’t think grade 9 is too soon. As to the birth control bit I don’t know what to say. I’m okay with birth control within marriage (non-abortifacient), but telling kids how to use birth control seems somehow permissive. I wish that birth control could have been presented as an in-marriage option or something…and I mean, there are girls who need to go on the Pill because of physiological reasons, so it doesn’t hurt to know about that. I just really wish that abstinence had been far more encouraged, but I don’t think sex ed is wrong, provided the parents are open to talking to their kids and have already done so.
Oh, and thank you for the loverly compliment, by the way…your writing is also stellar representation of great non-Engineering thought by Engineers.
haha your comment section is like a forum.
ill be at bing this weekend.
RYC: Don’t know what the problem is. It’s all in English (technically).
It’s funny you decided to write about this subject. I recently have just thought about this topic myself and have come to the conclusion that I have some pretty messed up views about sex.
That’s not a very surprising statement to make for myself, or for Christians in general, given the fact that most of our sex education, though we are Christians, comes from the school system, society, and the media.
I recently began reading a book entitled “Eros Redeemed,” by John White, the sequel to his first book, “Eros Defiled.” I began reading this book with the specific intent of educating myself from God’s perspective, since sexual sin has been a huge source of struggle in my life (being pretty honest here).
I figure the more equipped I am, the better able I am to fight temptations after knowing what the real truth is. Already I can see God cutting through the clutter of garbage and lies that I’ve believed for most of my life about this subject. He’s slowly clearing away the cobwebs and the light is flooding in. But with any other deep set belief that has been there for years, it’s going to take quite some time for me to really “get it.”
In response to the whole issue of educating your children about condoms, I think the fear many parents have in doing that is the danger that now their children might think they have free license to have sex with minimal consequences. “Well, with protection I’m all good to go and nothing will happen to me, right? I won’t get diseases or anything like that, so I won’t reap the consequences of my actions.”
I think the balanced perspective would also be to explain ALL the other consequences that come along with pre-marital sex-the spiritual, emotional, and social repercussions. Kids probably need to be educated more about that more than anything else, Though both need to be taught well.
It’s a tricky subject and I’m not saying I have the answer. It’s a HARD thing for parents to teach and mad props to them for even attempting to do it!
perhaps innocence is defined by how much we choose not to dwell on as much as by what we never see/experience – “take every thought captive” and all of that. If sex were only about babies and reproduction I would wholeheartedly agree that it be taught in schools, but it is about so much more than a biology teacher is trained to effectively deal with in every unique individual (with their own history) in a classroom. The person who should be talking to a child about sex is the person who knows that child and cares most for the whole child’s heart, emotions, and future. I’m not sure that any public school teacher would want that responsibility, nor is it socially/morally responsible to place such burdens in the hands of public teachers. Are we trying to get parents more or less involved in their children’s lives, here? My experiences with school teachers would say that parents should pay more attention, not pat the teacher on the back for a job well-done while they go off golfing. (though I do like golfing). Hmmm…
good topic, by the way, thanks for bringing it up.
The Bo(k)g is quiet…too quiet…AHHH! (swamp monster attacks). -20 life points for me.
I’ll give some Wii thoughts later this week.
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